endlessrarities: (Default)
[personal profile] endlessrarities
Before I start my mammoth tour of Ponpeii and Herculaneum, I have a confession to make.

I dislike the Romans.  That's being too nice about it.  I DETEST the Romans.

It wasn't always this way.  When I was a kid, I was besotted with them.  Thanks largely to the BBC, and their adaptation of The Eagle of The Ninth, which featured the lovely Anthony Higgins as Marcus.

My feelngs changed when I took up archaeology, and at first it was an artistic thing.  I found Celtic art awe-inspiring, and would willing trade the flowing lines and the open-ended curve of the La Tene style for anything that ever came out of a Roman workshop.  You can keep your marble sculpture and frescos:  give me the Basse Yutz flagons or the Battersea shield any day.

The La Tene style was at its peak in the pre-Roman Iron Age, and its fate was to be unceremoniously swept aside by the relentless march of the Roman legions.  Belgic pottery gave way to (bleaugh!) Samian Ware, roundhouses to villas, and eeyore-esque Stanwick horse masks (see user pic) to bog-standard statues of Mercury.  How many treasures of the Celtic world were hauled back to Rome as war booty and melted down into coinage and trinkets for the masses??

Sigh.

I haven't even got around to mentioning the more unsavoury aspects of the Roman psyche.  I get the distinct impression that they filched most of their ideas from the Greeks, and then transformed them into something nasty.  The Greeks were insular and into establising colonies and trading with all and sundry: the Romans were incorrigible expansionists, sending their legions swarming out over the known world.  The Greeks' idea of a fun sporting event was either a good pitched battle or the Olympic Games, all mass participation events in which everyone (okay, so long as they're male) could get involved.  The Romans twisted Estruscan funeral fights into grim spectator sports which required the horrible slaughter of men and animals in every greater numbers and ever more exotic fashions.  Their art reflects this.  It's often violent, and sometimes it's downright perverse.

The Romans were probably the first mega-mass consumers. They were fashion conscious, and style conscious.  But their ecomony relied on slavery: war won slaves, slaves did all the heavy labour, so the Roman citizens could swan about and have a good time, eating fast food and going shopping.  They thrust their way into the so-called 'Barbarian' countries (which had problems of their own, admittedly) and they manipulated local politics to suit themselves.   I think it's Tacitus who sums them up extremely nicely with his quote: 'They make a desert, and they call it peace.'

Their influence on our own modern world has been profound.  The fact that so many of our political and judicial and munipical buildings are modelled on Roman originals is not conincidental.  I think it's fair to say that if you stare too deep into the eyes of an Ancient Roman, you can find a reflection of yourself staring right back.  And when you take all the bad things as well as the good things into consideration, the resulting picture is not very pretty.

So there you have it.  By now, you're probably scratching your heads and wondering why I wanted to go to Pompeii in the first place.  To gloat, perhaps.  Because these darned pesky Romans had it coming to them.  Why, not even the might of the Roman Empire could stand up to Vesuvius when it blew its top.  Well, let me assure you that much as though I HATE the Romans, I don't think anyone deserves to be suffocated under tons of ash and pumice, nor seared and roasted in the midst of a pyroclastic flow.  I didn't weep for these unfortunates, but I came damn well close, even though there was almost two thousand years between us.

I suppose I hoped I'd see something in Pompeii that changed my preconceptions.  I didn't, but that didn't make the experience any less awe-inspiring.  The idea of a city - an entire city - being preserved for posterity is just mind-boggling.  Let alone three (we'll include Pompei, Herculaneum and Stabia in the total).   

But before I embark upon my virtual tour, I want you all to spare a thought for those who died that day.  Because they had names, and they had faces.  They had everyday lives, they had families, they had aspirations.  And it all got wiped out, due to circumstances completely outwith their control.

Some poignant images are preserved for posterity in the National Archaeological Museum in Naples:-




 
And so it's to them that I respectfully dedicate this forthcoming series of posts, because without their loss and their sacrifice, we'd still know next to nothing about their world.  They've left us a powerful and evocative legacy, and that's something for which we should be truly grateful.

Page 1 of 3 << [1] [2] [3] >>

Date: 2011-04-25 10:04 am (UTC)
ext_12726: (island calm)
From: [identity profile] heleninwales.livejournal.com
Thank you for explaining so clearly why I dislike the Romans. I never did much history at school so I was left with a strange split view of them: on the one hand we were told that the Romans had brought civilisation to a land of barbarians and on the other that they were hated invaders who trampled over the noble and romantic Celts who fought back hopelessly but valiantly. :)

Date: 2011-04-25 10:11 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] endlessrarities.livejournal.com
It's probably a Celtic thing, isn't it?

I couldn't bear to watch the series 'Rome' because I knew what was going to happen to the noble Vercingetorix...

Date: 2011-04-25 11:11 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] veronica-milvus.livejournal.com
Ah. They were Modern. They were History rather than pre-history, and we know too much about the way they thought. They were bloody empire builders. I feel the same way - maybe more so - about the Normans, imposing a foreign aristocracy on this country that still exists and keeps the peasants down.

Date: 2011-04-25 11:48 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] es0terika.livejournal.com
I agree with what you say on the Romans there, ever since the Empire fell we have been living in Post-Roman world - we have never come close to shaking of their cultural model or their legacy.

I like the portrait at the top btw, I believe we have a copy at the Manchester Museum.

Date: 2011-04-25 12:01 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] endlessrarities.livejournal.com
I don't really like the Saxons much, so I'm not that bothered about the Normans. Plus I like Romanesque architecture!! I'd quibble about the dominance of the foreign aristocracy - I'd say that the rise of the burghs toppled the old aristocratic order, and that if you dig a bit deeper, you'll probably find that a lot of the aristos are no doubt jumped-up 'nouveau riche' from Tudor & Stewart times who've settled in with the bricks and mortar.

Date: 2011-04-25 12:05 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] endlessrarities.livejournal.com
It was a wonderful thing to see all those amazing artefacts and images with which we're so familiar from books & telly face to face and in person.

Now I've got to figure out where to find the Vix Kratar.

I like to think that my cultural roots are Greek, as opposed to Roman. It's not true, I know, but I find it comforting!

Date: 2011-04-25 12:24 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] aulus-poliutos.livejournal.com
If they had continued that one a few seasons further, they would have had to deal with Arminius instead. *grin*

Date: 2011-04-25 12:38 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] endlessrarities.livejournal.com
Ooh, you've out-Romanised me with that one! My husband has recently read most of Julius Caesar's personal memoirs, but I'm still struggling with The Illiad and Thecudides. We've had endless debates over dinner regarding the pros and cons of Romanisation.

I'm just a prehistorian at heart, stuck in the sticks where one piece of Samian Ware makes not your day, but your whole excavation!

I love your blog - shame it's not still going strong on LJ:-(

Date: 2011-04-25 01:02 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] aulus-poliutos.livejournal.com
There is a LJ syndiaction for my blog which usually works, though with a few hours delay:

http://lostfort.livejournal.com/profile/

You can comment on the blog directly with you LJ account, or comment on the feed; I have it in my own flist to see comments. I just don't like the LJ software and structure that much and prefer Blogger. Plus I can upload my photos there for free and with so many pics, that's an important point.

Arminius is a fascinating character, btw (and 'hero' of one of my NiPs). What drove a man who got a Roman education, had been a decorated officer, a Roman citizen and member of the equestrian order (the only 'barbarian' to earn that disctinction at the time - it became more common in the 3rd and 4th centuries AD), to turn and fight the Romans?

Date: 2011-04-25 01:06 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] endlessrarities.livejournal.com
Ah! That's ringing a bell now. I think I know exactly who you mean!! But I never remembered his name... Anyone who gives the Romans a right good kicking deserves a medal in my book.

Thanks for the tip - I'm off to track down your blog!

Date: 2011-04-25 01:30 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] aulus-poliutos.livejournal.com
Arminius caused them a lot of trouble. It was not only the battle of the Teutoburg Forest, where he and his men (a number of them former Roman auxiliaries) annihilated three legions. Arminius also held up against Germanicus' retribution wars in AD 14-16 in a way that Tiberius, then enperor, finallly called the whole campaign off. Which is why we speak German today, not French. :)

There were two pitched battles in that campaign, and whatever the Romans tried to make both look like stunning victories, the second at least was not. So Arminius could even hold the field against a Roman army, not only ambush marching columns successfully.

Date: 2011-04-25 01:41 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] endlessrarities.livejournal.com
The loss of the legions in Germania is of course legendary - am I right in thinking that it happened in the reign of Augustus, and that he never actually recovered from the shock of receiving the news of their destruction? My lecturer in all matters Roman suggested (many moons ago) that the very act of drawing a boundary around the limits of your Empire is a very dangerous thing to do, as it's the momentum of expansion that keeps the whole thing going.

Thanks for the instant history lesson - I'd never paid much attention to the name of the individual who fought for the 'bad guys', aka the barbarians. I can picture the earthworks, but I can't remember the names...

I was always more interested in Gaul and Britain, and even then my interest was fleeting. It's a bit after my time, I'm afraid - I got diverted from the Iron Age into the Late Bronze Age so now I'm having to play catch-up!

Date: 2011-04-25 02:28 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lizziebelle.livejournal.com
I'm so glad to see others feel the same way about the Romans. I've always disliked them, whether it was (supposedly) feeding Christians to the lions, or conquering my ancestors, or baldly stealing from the Greeks, I just found them distasteful and barbaric. I find it alarming that our society (especially here in the US) seems to be following in their footsteps in many ways. We really do never learn from history, it seems.

Date: 2011-04-25 02:33 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] endlessrarities.livejournal.com
You know? I'm feeling pretty relieved that I'm not alone in my dislike for them. I thought it was just me, and my Celt-ophile tendencies.

Date: 2011-04-25 03:37 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] clairehawthorn.livejournal.com
Although I don't dislike the Romans as such, I've always been very relieved that they never made it as far my Irish homeland for it allowed the country to hold onto it's cultural and spiritual traditons.
Now I'm living seven miles from a section of Hadrian's Wall. Despite always being awestruck by it's structure as I drive alongside it, I always think that although Hadrian's Wall symbolises order and civilisation this is the part of England where the locals ran riot right up to a couple of hundred years ago. (Think of the Scots - English hoohaa...)
So - "thumbs nose" at the Romans......

Date: 2011-04-25 03:56 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] endlessrarities.livejournal.com
Heh, heh.

I have just two words to add:-

MONS GRAUPIUS!!!!

Date: 2011-04-25 04:06 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cmcmck.livejournal.com
My real hatred is for William the Bastard and the Normans- it's probably why I fetched up as an early modernist rather than a mediaevalist like hubby :o/

Italy wise, I find the Estruscans (who the Romans copied in so many things artistic) far more fascinating and especially the Villanova culture.

Date: 2011-04-25 04:18 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] endlessrarities.livejournal.com
This seems to be a trend amongst the historically minded.

I like Romanesque, you see. I'm a sucker for a nicely shaped arch and a pretty carved capital. Though the sacking of the north in the post Norman conquest period was brutal by anyone's standards...

Date: 2011-04-25 04:31 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] green-knight.livejournal.com
I would love to see Pompei, Herculaneum, and whatsit because the are such important sites in themselves. There are certain Roman engineering feats I admire, but it always strikes me that history treats the Romans as if they had come out of nowhere - when in reality they borrowed concepts and ideas from everybody, and they were by no means 'destined for greatness' as later narratives make it out.

(Go Team Hannibal!)

Ahem.

I forgot who it was on my flist/rlist who recently remarked about The Eagle that we (as in, Western Consumers) are used to seeing ourselves in the role of the conquerors, the people who bring civilisation to the Barbarians, only in the case of the Romans and the British Isles, _we are the Barbarians_.

Date: 2011-04-25 04:43 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] endlessrarities.livejournal.com
I certainly can't fault their competence at building or engineering, and the workmanship in their frescoes, bronzes glasswork and especially their mosaics is utterly astounding.

It's the subject matter that I find a great turn-off.

I took a photo of THAT nanny goat, but I don't think I'll have the guts to post it, even with an Adult Content notice...

Date: 2011-04-25 04:45 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] green-knight.livejournal.com
or comment on the feed

Oooh. I don't usually get as far as commenting on Blogger, because it's such a pain on my setup; but if you see comments on the feed, I'll certainly make use of that.

Date: 2011-04-25 04:50 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] endlessrarities.livejournal.com
I got it to work without any problems, and since I'm a technological doughheid, it MUST be easy!!

Date: 2011-04-25 04:58 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] aulus-poliutos.livejournal.com
Augustus probably was shocked, but he also made a public display of the whole 'Varus, give me back my legions' thing - he was good at that and it was easier to put the blame on Varus alone instead of admitting that his whole Germanic politics had been misguided. Germanicus later managed to get two of the three captured eagles back, and the mess he made (he lost more soldiers than Varus) was sold as a victory. Those Roman emperors totally would have had Facebook accounts if they lived today. :)

Date: 2011-04-25 05:02 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] aulus-poliutos.livejournal.com
I post the naughty Roman stuff as thumbnails. People can click if they want. :)

Since I know I got some underage readers, or at least picture-lookers, and my blog is overall safe, I play with the US rules here which I usually think are way too puritan. The stuff's displayed in the museums in Germany without any adult warning.

Date: 2011-04-25 05:06 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] green-knight.livejournal.com
Not on an elderly Mac. I can't upgrade Safari past version 2, and Blogger has introduced code that crashes Safari; so I need to start up Firefox, and I need to log in Every. Single. Fucking. Time (and no, it's not my cookie settings, the site is just so fucked up), and if a blog uses the inline comment box, it doesn't allow me to post at all.

Short of 'win the lottery' not much I can do.
Page 1 of 3 << [1] [2] [3] >>

Profile

endlessrarities: (Default)
endlessrarities

January 2013

S M T W T F S
  1 234 5
6789101112
13141516171819
202122 232425 26
2728293031  

Most Popular Tags

Style Credit

Expand Cut Tags

No cut tags
Page generated Jun. 16th, 2025 05:44 am
Powered by Dreamwidth Studios