(no subject)

[endlessrarities]

I don't know why I've avoided watching the second Elizabeth film until now.  I think a reviewer once said it was more like watching chick-lit than a decent follow-up to an enjoyable historical drama...

I'm watching it now, and I'm not really getting on very well with it.  I was disturbed in the first film when they tried to pass off Durham Cathedral as Westminster, but now they've tried to use Eilean Donan as Fotheringay, 

Aargh!!! Some Hollywood sleight-of-hands just go TOO far.

And after reading Mary Queen of Scotland and the Isles (which was an enjoyable read, if not exactly a barrel of laughs....), I'm not that enamoured with the twisted attitude of poor Maria Stuart...

I have additional sad news to report. After a short but happy life, 'Homer' the bread-maker has mysteriously expired (D'ough!), while trying to make a cheese and chive loaf.  And guess who's lost the receipt???  We're both a bit gutted about its longevity, or lack thereof.  A week's not that impressive, and Kenwood's normally a really reliable make...  Meanwhile, the cheese and chive loaf has been given an emergency kneading and is now getting flung into the oven in the hope that we can salvage the ingredients...

The good news is that at long last, after much angst and consternation, Novel #3 is at last coming together...

Right.  I'm going to return to my two hour game of 'Spot the Monument'... Aka Elizabeth: the Golden Age.

Oh, hang on.  I've spotted something I like.  The zebra....

Comments

::steps on soapbox::

[rowangolightly.livejournal.com]

There were SO many things that pissed me off about the first movie; why the nine hells didn't they just stick with actual history, like, oh, the stuff that actually happened that was so much more dramatic than the way they re-wrote it!

The greatest value to both movies, I think, is getting people to be aware of the characters and to think about the history. Unfortunately though, then people think that what they actually saw is correct. My friend who sat next to me during the first movie kept patting my knee and saying, "It's only a movie, it's only a movie."

They should've kept the original title of the book, "Elizabeth: a Novel."

Re: ::steps on soapbox::

[rowangolightly.livejournal.com]

Oh, and I haven't watched the second one yet but I should.

The idea of portraying Elizabeth as indecisive had me just boiling.

Re: ::steps on soapbox::

[endlessrarities.livejournal.com]

Oh, from what I've seen of #2... Just don't go there. Good ole Queen Bess is currently behaving more like Queenie out of Blackadder II than Gloriana...

Re: ::steps on soapbox::

[rowangolightly.livejournal.com]

Oh shite, ok, I won't watch it. I adore Blackadder but I don't equate it with accurate history in any way, although the costumes in it are more accurate than those in the first Elizabeth movie.

I can't watch The Tudors either. Just cannot..

Re: ::steps on soapbox::

[endlessrarities.livejournal.com]

Yay! I touched a nerve with that one, didn't I?? And I thought I was being mean...

I'd enjoyed the first film as a fun historical fantasy - I was fortunate enough not to be too well-versed in the Elizabethan era. I'm banned from watching Braveheart, believe it or not. And as for The Tudors... Yes...

Poor Mary Q of S is really getting a raw deal in this one, I must say. But the zebra was very fetching
indeed.

Now... Where's that bit filmed? It's a chapter-house, and it's definitely Romanesque, but it's not familiar... Hmmm... [She racks her brain for a list of possible cathdedrals...]I don't think it's one I've been to recently.

Re: ::steps on soapbox::

[gylfinir.livejournal.com]

Some of the Cambridge colleges and York Minster were used in the second one (and the coronation scene in Liz: 1 was YM).

Re: ::steps on soapbox::

[endlessrarities.livejournal.com]

There was a Durham bit, wasn't there? Or did I just hallucinate that???

I've been to York Minister fairly recently, so I should recognise that one, but I haven't visited the Cambridge colleges. Yep, that's another place for the 'Must Visit' list...

Re: ::steps on soapbox::

[gylfinir.livejournal.com]

Yes, Durham features again :)

I only know about the Cambridge colleges (King's, I think) because a friend of mine was a student there when it was being filmed. I think his comment was, "Today, Cate Blanchett passed by in full slap."

Re: ::steps on soapbox::

[endlessrarities.livejournal.com]

I think I blinked and missed Durham...

Re: ::steps on soapbox::

[gylfinir.livejournal.com]

Oh no! You're going to have to watch it again! ;)

Re: ::steps on soapbox::

[rowangolightly.livejournal.com]

See, I would enjoy watching those with you so you could point all that out to me.

I have an odd POV on Mary Q of S. She was a pretty but pretty stupid woman; she choose poor advisers and then took their worst advice. But at the same time, no one will ever convince me that Eliz. had a grudge against her or wanted her demise. I think E. was actually blackmailed by Walsingham into finally having her beheaded. She firmly believed in the Divine Right of Kings and saw any damage to monarchy as being a bad thing.

Re: ::steps on soapbox::

[endlessrarities.livejournal.com]

You should try the Margaret George book and see what you think. I thought she was quite sympathetic to Mary - she came across as rather naive and so desperate to escape that she was willing to try anything.

Elizabeth was quite sympathetically portrayed, too.

I just wasn't that struck on the Scottish bits, but that's probably because they're the ones I'm most familiar with and therefore more likely to find fault with.

Re: ::steps on soapbox::

[rowangolightly.livejournal.com]

Yep, I've got it and like it very much, though, not quite as much as the Alison Weir or the Carolly Erickson. *grin* If there's an Elizabeth book out there that I haven't read...well, I'd like to know of it. Before I portrayed the part, I read everything I could get my hands on and then sort of wove my way down the middle of everyone's opinions.

Funny thing is that I only read up to the point that I was portraying her as I didn't want to know "my own future history" so to speak. For the same reason, I didn't watch any of the Elizabeth movies; I wanted my own interpretation and didn't want to be influenced. So when I finally visited Westminster and saw the placard for Raleigh outside the entrance, I nearly threw a public fit out of pique over James. ::shakes head at self::

Re: ::steps on soapbox::

[endlessrarities.livejournal.com]

What a lovely comment! I know what it's like to see through a known historical figure through the writing, but actually playing the part as an actor... That's taking it to a whole new level.

I'm not a big fan of Lizzy I - mainly because I LOATHE her daddy, Henry VIII, and also because I'm Scots by inclination, and she's a qunitessentially English queen. But she was undoubtedly a great leader, and she a) managed to be very astute and politically savvy throughout her reign, while managing to remain a woman in a man's world, and b) achieved greatness for her people, so like her or not, she demands respect.

If only Mary could have seen the long-term picture and accepted that James was destined to draw the two kingdoms together...

Oh, and Lizzy went from being a Miranda Richardson type character to a complete spoilt brat later on, having cat fights and hissy fits. For a woman of her stature, at her time of life? I think not...

Could be worse. Could be the Other Boleyn Girl. The telly adaptation of that was quite good, if a bit truncated. I avoided the film like the plague - it looked like a bunch of prom queens done up for the school play rather than a serious historical drama.

Oh, and has anyone noticed how the entire cast of the Tudors all look the same???

Re: ::steps on soapbox::

[rowangolightly.livejournal.com]

Thanks! I haven't seen the Other Boleyn Girl either; I just get too bent out of shape by the way the distort history not to mention ths horrid casting. HELLO, Henry was a redhead!

One of my biggest gripes with historical movies is how they warp everything to modern sensibilities. They were not like US in culture and customs and viewing them that way does both them and history a vast disservice.

What you do architecturally, I do with historical figures but it's different in that for you, the structures are still there, at least somewhat. For those of us who portray and costume these characters, we have no 'primary' research. All we have are letters, documents and the books that people have researched and written about them.

I don't blame you one bit for not liking HenryVIII or Elizbeth. They both did nasty things to the Scots and Eliz.'s reign did sinply wretched things to the Irish. It was such a xenophobic and insular national culture; horrid to our modern sensibilities.

I could go on and on about this; I have pretty strong opinions and feel that portraying these characters is a responsibility to do it honestly and still entertain. This could be a thesis, you know. *g*

But one quick story; when I was playing Elizabeth at the Earl of Southampton's Faire, a Member of Parliament came to visit the faire and he wanted to talk to be about E., not interact with me *being* E. So I made him bow to me and kiss my hand; I was not about to break character. A little part of my brain was going, "eep" but the rest of it was "Hell-yeah!"

Re: ::steps on soapbox::

[endlessrarities.livejournal.com]

I know exactly what you mean. I think I enjoy writing historical fiction because it gives you a real opportunity to get behind the buildings and the artefacts, and find the people.

When I was researching my 15th century novels, I was having to recreate the minor nobility from very few contemporary documents - a big part of it was trying to find their 'shadows' in the momentous events at the time, and juxtapose this with local history. You tend to find that the big nefarious atrocities recorded locally are a result of genuine grievances at the national level - but the two sources of information aren't usually drawn together. That's why I love doing the fiction - you can go beyond the normal parameters of historical enquiry.

I've been known to check the Registers of the Great Seal for witnesses to documents, just to find out who was where at what time. Minor discrepanies I can cope with, though I still try very hard to avoid them. I bend and stretch the spaces in the history, but I won't distort the known facts!

Re: ::steps on soapbox::

[rowangolightly.livejournal.com]

Ok, now I need to read your novels. I absolutely get that; I've often thought that a good historical novel requires every but as much research, if the author is concerned with historicity. It's often forgotten that people writing historical biographies are required to make judgments and have opinions of their own that color their writing.

Re: ::steps on soapbox::

[endlessrarities.livejournal.com]

The one that's finished isn't published yet - it's the one causing all the angst and the grief!!

I can honestly say that I put as much work into creating it as I did into writing and preparing my Ph.D. If you don't, you ain't doing it right.

Least the current one's set mostly in the present...

Re: ::steps on soapbox::

[rowangolightly.livejournal.com]

If you don't, you ain't doing it right.

Absolutely. When I visited old Sarum, the woman in the gift shop tried to sell me the academic book on the site and I told her I'd read and enjoyed the book by Edward Rutherford. She poo-poo'd it as a novel, even though it was for sale there at the gift shop. I just rolled my eyes and left after buying my little gold treskillion earrings.

Re: ::steps on soapbox::

[endlessrarities.livejournal.com]

And not only was Henry a redhead, we all know that he got fat, bloated and 'orrible, too. He was not a slim, suave sex-god!!!

Sean Bean would have been good. As long as they remembered to issue him with an appropriate fatsuit for later years...

Re: ::steps on soapbox::

[rowangolightly.livejournal.com]

*lol* Exactly. I just can't watch that stuff; it wouldn't be good for my blood pressure.

[steepholm.livejournal.com]

Durham Cathedral as Westminster? Egad!

[endlessrarities.livejournal.com]

There's no disguising those pillars. They stick out like a sore thumb!

I was watching the film thinking, "Ho, hum," when suddenly I sat up and thought "Oooh!! Durham!! Pretty pillars!!!"

[gylfinir.livejournal.com]

Don't get me started...

Mary, Queen of Scots with a Scottish accent - ARGH! ARGH! ARGH!

[endlessrarities.livejournal.com]

This is much more fun than watching the actual film!!!

[endlessrarities.livejournal.com]

And I like your dead foxy thing...

[gylfinir.livejournal.com]

Ah, that's the fainted squirrel - from Tove Jansson / The Moomins.

[gylfinir.livejournal.com]

Like you, I find 'historical' films excruciating, but I'm drawn to them, nevertheless. Fortunately, my Tudor history is quite good, so I can tell which bits are bunkum. I try to enjoy them for the nonsense they are :)

[endlessrarities.livejournal.com]

I'm curious to know where they get the historical evidence for these large maps laid out on the floor with little model boats placed upon them, aka the WWII things... The ladies-in-waiting should really be dressed as Tudor Wrens...

Oh, and I'm glad the squirrel hasn't expired...

[gylfinir.livejournal.com]

Wait 'til you get the Tilbury speech...

[endlessrarities.livejournal.com]

Oh, is this it?

The horse is nice. It's got a pretty perm. And it looks a bit Spanish. How counter-revolutionary is that??

I'd hoped the speech would be something to do with promising 100% punctuality on the London/Tilbury and Southend. And where's the 'Feak and Weeble Woman' bit? Wasn't that meant to be around now?

Armour's a bit risque, too. Very Joan of Arc.

[gylfinir.livejournal.com]

And the cliffs...because, well, yes...

[rowangolightly.livejournal.com]

Ok, now I'm gonna have to watch it, you know that, right?

[rowangolightly.livejournal.com]

::blink:: What? Oh, holy shite. She couldn't even speak...oh, never mind.

[gylfinir.livejournal.com]

Mind you, Mary wasn't handled very well in Elizabeth I either, 'though she did have a French accent.

[endlessrarities.livejournal.com]

The Monty Python version was probably the closest to the truth, what with the awful sawing noises and the screams. At least in this film, Mary's head came off in an elegant oner. The wee dog didn't get its fifteen seconds of fame, though.

And I guess the Spanish horses are heading off to Ireland, to found the Connemara breed... Glad they fitted that little morsel of history in somewhere.

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

I saw the end of that movie. I particularly liked the bit where Walter Raleigh rides a fire ship right into the Armada then jumps overboard- into the North sea at night- and swims to safety.

[endlessrarities.livejournal.com]

He probably hitched a lift on a passing Spanish horse as it swam by.

And now it's over. Phew!!

[es0terika.livejournal.com]

I actually enjoyed Golden Age more than the first one, the cinematography in it was beautiful and the acting absolutely top class.

[endlessrarities.livejournal.com]

I think you're spot on there - visually, it's a feast for the eyes. You're probably not supposed to think too deeply about the history...

The costumes are also stunning. And, as a vehicle for pretty medieval buildings, it does a sterling job.

[goddessofchaos.livejournal.com]

This is why I rarely watch films based on true events, either historical or more recent. Even if I'm no expert on the time period or characters, I always sit there thinking "I'm sure that's not accurate... I doubt that happened like that... That doesn't look right".

Wow, a breadmaker only lasting a week? That's pretty shabby :(

[endlessrarities.livejournal.com]

Kenwood are of that opinion, too, which is quite a relief!!

[jennyblackford.livejournal.com]

Did you by any chance pay for the breadmaker by credit or debit card? The statement might be enough.

[endlessrarities.livejournal.com]

It was cash, because Dr Luddite here doesn't do credit cards...

But fear not! The Kenwood helpline was contacted, and poor Homer will be dispatched for repair or replacement right away as it's still well within guarantee.

[jennyblackford.livejournal.com]

Oh, excellent!